Benefield Testimony

I look forward to you reading this testimony that Cale Benefield recently sent me. It represents two things that I believe are to be central to our evangelistic efforts: building relationally with unbelievers so we might be able to eventually share the gospel with them and covering all our efforts with prayer. Cale - thanks to you and Jackie for modeling these things!!

Also, if any of you have a testimony that you think would serve please send it on to either Jim or me.

Mickey

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Testimony:

My wife Jackie and I are getting used to living in a neighborhood for the first time in our lives. We were raised in a semi-rural area and have lived in several apartments during our first years of marriage. One aspect of living in a neighborhood that we regularly enjoy is evening walks after dinner together with our 8-month old daughter, Eleanor.  On a walk a few months ago, we met some friendly neighbors who I’ll call James and Michelle along with their 3-year-old daughter. Needless to say, we chatted briefly but continued on our walk. One request I’ve been asking God for months has been “Lord would you give Jackie and me the opportunity to have long-term, mutually enjoyable friendship with unbelievers for the sake of the gospel.” My first thought after meeting these folks was that this friendship might be a way the Lord would begin to answer that request.  

That brief exchange with James and Michelle came and went, and I wondered what might come of it. I came across two Sovereign Grace blog posts on evangelism (“Evangelism and Prayer” and “Do Not Grow Weary”) that specifically encouraged me to pray simple but consistent requests and to keep my eyes peeled for ongoing opportunities with James and Michelle.  Similarly, a Sunday sermon on the Lord’s Prayer in Luke was the catalyst for a yearning to ask for God’s kingdom to come (something I feel like I had never honestly or fervently asked before).  By teaching his disciples to pray for God’s kingdom to come, Jesus is telling us the will of the Father so that we can ask according to his will and then receive from a God who hears! So, ever since we moved into our new neighborhood, the your-kingdom-come request has been, “God, change this neighborhood.” I don’t know how he’s going to do it… but I tend to think that it’s through genuine friendship with people like James and Michelle whose house we pass on our evening walks. 

Armed with the promise that God will most certainly grant the request for his kingdom to come, I found myself asking on one walk, “Lord would you allow us to see James and Michelle on our walk?” Before we passed their home I had some sense that I had been granted that request. As we walked by… well… nobody outside.  But  as we rounded the corner several houses down, the Spirit prompted me to uncomfortably say to my wife, “It might sound crazy, but can we turn back around and see if we come across James and Michelle?” Lo and behold once we had turned around, they were coming out for a walk in the opposite direction. We chatted for a bit in an attempt to establish some sort of familiarity and went on our way after a few minutes. Between that brief conversation and our next few walks, I felt emboldened to ask things more specifically and eagerly having just experienced a clear answer to prayer.  On future walks, I found myself asking “Lord would you let us walk with them?” A few walks were spent simply enjoying family time because we weren’t guaranteed to see James and Michelle on every walk.  After making that same request over the course of days and weeks, we passed by one evening as our neighbors were preparing to walk as well. We walked and talked for about an hour, and Jackie and I both came away eager to spend more time with them. It seemed so simple, but it was clearly the result of a generous Father happily granting a request made according to his will. 

 The next request as the Lord lovingly fortified our faith was, “Can we sit with them, Lord?” The next time we saw James and Michelle, we didn’t sit with them. BUT we exchanged phone numbers during a very brief “hi, bye” one day and they invited us to their back porch to hang out for a Saturday afternoon. I didn’t expect what felt like basic salutations and conversations to spring directly from prayers that God delights to hear and answer partially because I hadn’t felt that those were the kind of things God delights to grant to us. 

Fast-forward a month or so to today. As a friendship is built and a door for the gospel is opened to us with our neighbors, I have been filled with confidence that since God really wants his kingdom to come, that he wants uses the smallest things asked in his name to accomplish his work of rescuing souls.  What is clear is that James and Michelle are not just neighbors. They are nice yet broken sinners in need of a savior.  They are also acquaintances with whom my family now has the joy of telling them that God the Father sent that very Savior that they need. I have no assurance that James and Michelle will hear the gospel and believe in Jesus. However, I do have assurance of something very important concerning our relationship with them…“Truly, truly, I say to you, whatever you ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you,” and he has done so on a number of occasions. Needless to say, the current request we’ve been making of our Father has been, “Father, can we share a meal together with James and Michelle?” And here we are awaiting having them over for dinner next week.

May Jesus be glorified in the requests that you make persistently and for his name’s sake with the expectation that the Father will grant it to you. 

A Return to Normalcy

In his 1920 presidential candidacy, Warren G. Harding coined the campaign slogan “a return to normalcy.”  The idea was to allow the country to get back to the place it was before World War One.   Although hardly the same as recovering from a world war, I think I can speak for all of us when I say we long for a “return to normalcy” for our Sunday morning meetings from our very abnormal experiences because of COVID–19.  When all of this began, we published a series of articles on how to help your local church cope with and hopefully even thrive during the pandemic.  Although there is no clear end in sight to the restrictions we are having to work with, we thought it would be good to send some thoughts on how to begin thinking through what’s next for our Sunday gatherings.

As I’ve talked to various guys, I understand that we are still all over the map when it comes to how we are thinking about and conducting our meetings.  Some churches are back to meeting all together while following social distancing and mask protocols.    Some are meeting with attendance restrictions while continuing to live stream services for those who can’t or don’t feel comfortable to return to services.  Some are meeting outdoors.  Some have gone to two services in order to meet gathering size restrictions.  Almost no one is providing children’s ministry as normal.  In other words, this isn’t a “one size fits all” season.

Unity

In past articles, we have acknowledged that there is no “one size fits all” solution to how to go about carrying out the church’s mission, especially our mission to meet.  And it remains true that there is no “one size fits all” solution regarding transitioning back to normalcy not only as churches but for individuals in our churches.  Some people won’t come if they have to wear a mask.  Some people won’t come if others aren’t wearing masks.  Some may not want to come until a vaccine is available.  Some can’t fathom a way to come with young children when there is no children’s ministry.  Some think we need to defy government mandates.  

But more important than the decisions we make as elders and our members’ response to those decisions is the heart attitude we all must maintain.  I think Ephesians 4:1-4 captures that heart attitude - “walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.”  As we strive to do what we believe is best for our local church in the coming months, let’s make sure we even more so strive to “maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace” in both our decisions and in our attitudes.  And let’s do all we can to help our members to do the same.

2 Big Decisions

From the guys I’ve talked to it seems that there are two big and related decisions that loom.  First, when or if to stop live streaming?  Second, what to do about children’s ministry (CM)? 

First, live streaming.  I think most of us probably agree that live streaming is a temporary exigency for an unusual time and, while grateful for how it has served us, that we don’t want to continue with it any longer than we have to.  It is our theological conviction that the church is intended to meet together and in person.  So, when do we stop?  Some think live streaming should cease as soon as local restrictions are such that the church could meet all together in person.   And that is a reasonable goal.  As pastors we should graciously help our members wean themselves off of the live stream when meeting in person is entirely possible for them.

But we must balance that with consideration for those who might not feel comfortable returning to a live meeting.  Some may believe live streams are the only way to safely and fruitfully participate in the life of the church.  We certainly don’t want people to use live streaming as a mere convenience but neither do we want to cut members off from their source of participation because of a few who misuse the technology.  That lead to the second big decision, children’s ministry.

Many young families can’t envision their younger children sitting through a meeting that tests their ability to sit quietly and not distract parents and others.  They can’t imagine benefitting from the meeting because they are having to spend so much time dealing with the kids.  So they may see live streaming as their only alternative.  I frankly sympathize.

But there are some options.  Come alongside parents by providing quiet activities (coloring, puzzles) for kids to do during the meeting. Enlist the talents of gifted and creative servants in CM to create ways to engage the kids and serve the parents. Consider doing some limited CM for pre-school age kids as well as a nursery for babies.  

You might even consider offering parents “self-serve” CM: a dedicated room, perhaps with a video feed, where parents can sit with, play with, or hold their children without fearing disruption. This is also an opportunity to encourage and equip parents with school-age kids, most of whom should be capable of sitting through a normal Sunday meeting. But whatever you do make sure that you continue to keep all safety protocols in place. 

Patient Endurance

I spent a good bit of time this summer studying and preparing for a Sunday class on Revelation. I was struck by what is perhaps the main exhortation enjoined on the church throughout the ages: “patient endurance.”  I think that’s a good takeaway for us as well.  If you’re like me you thought this COVID thing would last a few months and we would be done with it.  Obviously not.  It looks like we could be facing restrictions on a return to normalcy for quite some time.  So it’s a time for patient endurance. 

When I first considered patient endurance I thought it was redundant.  But the more I thought about it the more I saw the wisdom in that translation.  Sometimes we have no choice but to endure.  But we can endure in various ways.  We can have complaining endurance where we gripe about our trial.  We can have angry endurance where we rage against it.  Frustrated endurance where we feel thwarted at every turn.  Or resigned endurance with a passive, “oh well” attitude.  Patient endurance is different.  It bears with the thing that must be endured trusting God for his perfect timing and His good purpose for the trial.

People often ask me, “What do you think God is trying to accomplish through this COVID trial.”  My stock answer is – “I have no idea.”  But if nothing else, if as individual Christians, local churches, and a denomination we learn to patiently endure our trials we will at least have learned a very valuable lesson - one that will serve us well even when COVID is a distant memory.

Classics on Counseling #2

This is our second in a series of articles that influenced our approach to biblical counseling. It is an article by Edward Welch titled, “Exalting Pain? Ignoring Pain? How Do We Counsel Those Who Suffer?”

Evangelism and Prayer

In his book Prayer, John Bunyan said “You can do more than pray after you have prayed, but you cannot do more than pray until you have prayed.”  I think that is great counsel when it comes to our evangelism.  J.I. Packer explains why -  “Preaching and praying must go together…We are to preach because without knowledge of the gospel no man can be saved.  We are to pray because only the sovereign Holy Spirit in us and in men’s hearts can make our preaching effective to men’s salvation.”

With that I mind, here are some of the ways scripture encourages to pray for evangelism.

1.  Pray for opportunities to witness.

Colossians 4:3-4  pray also for us, that God may open to us a door for the word.

2 Thessalonians 3:1  pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you.

2.  Pray for specific people you want to see saved.

1 Timothy 2:1-4  First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people…this is good and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

3.  Pray for boldness and courage. 

Acts 4:29  Grant to your servants to continue to speak your word with all boldness.

 4.  Pray for the Holy Spirit to be at work in your witnessing and in your hearers.

Acts 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you and you will be my witnesses.

Acts 16:14 The Lord opened her (Lydia’s) heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.

5.  Pray that God would grant you a greater heart for the lost.

John 4:35  Open your eyes, and see that the fields are white for harvest.

Romans 10:1  my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved.

6.  Pray that God would send laborers into the harvest field – and include yourself.  

Matthew 9:37-38  The harvest is plentiful but the laborers are few, therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest.

7.  Pray for skill in presenting the gospel – clarity, joy, proper weightiness.

Colossians 4:3-4  pray…that I may make it clear, which is how I ought to speak.

One final thing.  Praying is something everyone can do to participate in evangelism.  We can and should “do the work of an evangelist” by teaching people how to pray for evangelism.  But I would also urge pastors to use pastoral prayer on Sundays to pray in these ways.  Hearing your prayers for these things will serve as a wonderful example and encouragement to those in your church to do the same.

Do Not Become Weary

I’ve been trying to reach out to people ever since I became a Christian many years ago.  I have a pretty easy time getting to know people, drawing them out, looking for opportunities to serve, and trying to invite them to come to church or the Bridge Course.  I’ve noticed that many people seem receptive or at least polite during these interactions, but I rarely see people actually come to something I’ve invited them to. Until recently.

 For some reason, I have seen several of my ongoing outreach opportunities bear fruit. God often brings fruit from our obedience, but not always in our timeframe. These encounters greatly encouraged me to continue to “be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain” (1 Cor. 15:58). I hope they encourage you too.

•  A couple of years ago I was sitting across from a couple with a marriage that was on the ropes.  I had met her after a couple of weeks at the Bridge Course and she somehow convinced her husband to come for counseling.  He was a successful, good looking guy and I wasn’t sure how this was going to go.  But he was much more receptive than I imagined and ended up coming to the next Bridge Course and church.  We did lunch several times and God seemed to be drawing him, but he soon got sucked away because of work and the pull of the world.  A couple of months ago he called me.  He was visiting his cousin in Florida who happened to be a Christian and asked him why he stopped coming to church.  So he called me.  We got together a few more times, then he sent me a text saying that he thinks he just gave his life to the Lord.  I called him and he told me through tears how he had confessed to his wife and been reconciled to Christ.  Years later, he is still loving the Lord, reading the Bible an hour a day, listening to messages constantly, and reading the Big Picture Story Bible to his kids every night. It is a joy to watch him grow. God breathed on my mundane faithfulness and brought a soul to himself.

• A couple of months ago, I was preaching at a recovery meeting at a homeless shelter/rehab in Chester, Pennsylvania.   I know a lot of these guys since they attend our Bridge Course.  At the end of the night, I ran into a guy that I hadn’t seen in a while and asked how he was doing.  He told me that he just got there that day and that things were not going well.  I encouraged him and invited him to church.  The next night I was getting my hair cut and talking to a girl that has cut my hair many times.  She was going through a lot of hardship and was even in tears as she explained all that was going on.  As we talked, I asked her the name of her boyfriend.  After going back and forth she showed me a picture and it was the same guy that I saw the day before at the shelter/rehab.  I couldn’t believe it and neither could she.  At that moment, I told her that this was God’s way of showing her that he was real.  I invited her to the Bridge and to church and she came and gave her life to Christ. Just regular preaching and encouraging. Just a regular haircut. But God was at work once again in ways I couldn’t see.

• I had been reaching out to my dental hygienist for years.  Despite the fact that it’s really difficult to form intelligible words with all the dental instruments in your mouth, I tried.  I talked to her about God and the Bible and church and the Bridge. But she never came to anything. Recently, I was preaching the second message at the Bridge Course and I looked to my left and there she was, sitting in one of the groups.  I couldn’t believe it.  She was attending the Bridge Course and I didn’t even know it.  She said that she had visited other churches, but she had never heard messages that seemed to make so much sense.  She was even telling the dentist all about it which saved me from trying to do it with all those instruments in my mouth.  

This season has been very encouraging for me after years of sowing with not a lot of reaping.  It reminds me of the verse, “Do not become weary in doing good for at the proper time you will reap a harvest if you do not give up.” (Galatians 6:9).  It’s easy to become weary when it comes to evangelism especially if you are in a season where there is a lot of sowing but not much reaping.  But let’s remember God’s promise that if we don’t give up, we will reap a harvest.  God just wants us to be faithful and he will do the rest.

Jim Donahue is the Pastor of Evangelism at Covenant Fellowship Church, Glenn Mills, PA.

Responding to and Preparing for Cultural Changes and Persecution

Transcript

Benjamin Kreps:

Hey everyone. And welcome back to the Mark Prater podcast, where our aim is to connect our global family of churches with our Executive Director. Hey Mark.

Mark Prater:

Hey Ben. You're back. How was vacation?

Benjamin Kreps:

It was great. Went to the Jersey shore. Wonderful time.

Mark Prater:

Oh, I'm so glad you got away. You should know that Eric Turbedsky, who hosted last week, is now angling to get back into the host role.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah. Yeah. I noticed that. And you know, it is a highly coveted and prestigious role with a very high paying salary.

Mark Prater:

Exactly.

Benjamin Kreps:

Who could blame him? On a serious note, over the past couple of weeks, because now the Supreme Court is in session, trying cases, there's been a number of decisions that affect our perspective on the biblical values in our culture and religious liberty. Do you have some thoughts about that?

Mark Prater:

Well, I'm sure our guys are tracking recent Supreme Court decisions a couple of weeks ago where Gorsuch joined sort of the liberal judges and ruled on the civil rights law of 1964 that said there should be no discrimination based on sex is what they keyed in on. They expanded really that definition to include sexual identity, gender preference. And that was a disappointing decision because it's not a biblical worldview.

The other one that just occurred this week is where they ruled, where Roberts joined the liberals, and rule to overturn a Louisiana law that restricted abortion. They had some high levels of laws that needed to be kept like doctors having privileges and local hospitals. And so they overruled that. And so that was disappointing. So in both of those, those get biblical issues that we care a lot about.

Benjamin Kreps:

What would be some thoughts or suggestions for our thinking as pastors, as we navigate through a culture that increasingly is moving away from what we hold when it comes to different views of morality and a biblical worldview?

Mark Prater:

Yeah. Obviously we're, you know guys here in the States, I think throughout the world, are seeing the cultural trend as it relates to sexual identity and sexual ethics. The abortion issue has been an issue for some time, not only in this nation, but, but many nations.

And now you're seeing the Supreme Court rule on those issues in a way, at least for Christians is, disappointing. So I think, you know, the way I'm thinking about it is that I think pastors have to begin to think about how to prepare their members for persecution. I don't think that's an overreaction because of the cultural trends and even biblically speaking, if we're going to live a godly life, we're going to be persecuted. It says that in 2 Timothy3: 12, so persecution should be expected. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 12:10 that he is content with persecution. He uses the plural form. So just begin thinking about how you can equip your members for persecution that I think is going to come.         

I'm more concerned, not about my generation as much, although I think we'll face it. I'm more thinking about my grandkids and pastors preparing my grandkids for persecution I think will come.

Benjamin Kreps:

That's great. Mark, do you have any practical suggestions, one or two, for how we might go about preparing our church for persecution?

Mark Prater:

Obviously preaching. You can consider the beatitudes in Matthew 5:10-12, in particular. Blessed are those who are persecuted for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. He goes on to say, blessed are those when you are reviled. That section of Scripture, I think, is a good one to preach from and to consider. You could spring from 2 Timothy 3:12. In teaching it, I would want to emphasize this persecution actually should be more of a normal aspect of the Christian life. It's not necessarily abnormal and just preparing our folks to respond in a godly way.

It's one thing to be aware of persecution, experiencing it and how to respond to it is a different thing. So you and I were talking before we hit the record button about that, that wonderful picture in Acts 4, where they're being persecuted for preaching the gospel. And they respond by rejoicing. That's a great way to respond.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yeah, I think it's a good thing to help our people know that as we increasingly face hostility from the culture, there are tears, there is sadness connected with that, but there's also joy there, in Christ, waiting for us. And also to know that the Bible, much of it, is written by people who are facing persecution and to people in persecution. So I think there are treasures for us in the Word that we are not as acquainted with as we should be, that we will become more acquainted with that will comfort us in these days ahead.

Mark Prater:

And may the effect be that the church thrives and the gospel advances. You see that not only in Acts 4, for example, or throughout the rest of the book of Acts, you see that in church history, right? The church drives in your persecution. So even though things may be more difficult culturally, as worldviews clash, may our churches thrive in gospel ministry as we face more persecution.

Benjamin Kreps:

Yes. Amen. Well, thanks, Mark, for your thoughts and thank you everyone for watching and we'll be back here next week. Lord willing, see you then.

Mark Prater is the Executive Director of Sovereign Grace Churches and has served as an elder at Covenant Fellowship Church since 2002. 

Classics on Counseling

Many of us remember the days of thinking carefully through our approach to counseling and the therapeutic movement.  But many of us weren’t even around in those days.  Over the next few months, I’m going to be posting some of the articles that were particularly formative for SG as we developed a Biblical approach to counseling God’s people.  My hope is that reading these historically important articles will be a helpful reminder to many and helpful new thoughts for others.

We’re starting this with one of the articles that I think was most impactful for us - David Powlison’s “Idols of the Heart and Vanity Fair.”  And also, thanks to Andy Farmer and Pete Payne who have served SG so well in the counseling realm including teaching this topic at the pastors’ college.  They have served us well in recommending the articles that I’ll be posting each month.

SGC Mentoring and Coaching Proposals

Among the many things I have and continue to love about SGC is the relationships and care we share as pastors.  Creating a BCO has served to create a greater structure for those elements, especially through regions and regional leaders.   In addition to these, we have developed a coaching program for our church planters that, from all I’ve heard, has had a big-time effect in preparing them to plant and in supporting them in the first year of planting.  We recently expanded that coaching program to serve our international pastors.

Last year, one of the solo pastors in the mid-south region asked if he could get some coaching help as well.  Both Mike Seaver (who leads our coaching) and I thought it would be worth a try and if it went well could be a model to serve pastors in similar situations.  Well, I’m happy to say it went very well.  And because of that, I’m writing to let you know about two opportunities for coaching/mentoring that SG is making available. 

Based on his experience with all our coaching, Mike has created an opportunity for some pastors to receive coaching.  In addition, Tim Kerr, who has vast experience and success in mentoring pastors in Canada, has also offered to make his mentoring available to U.S. pastors.  I have the greatest respect for both these men and, if this sounds interesting, I’d encourage you to check out their programs (I don’t like this word but can’t think of a better one!!) on the Church Development Website.

If you have any questions after checking these out you can email Mike at mike.seaver@risenhope.church, and Tim at newtimkerr@gmail.com.

Mentoring Ministry Introduction (Tim Kerr)

Coaching Proposal for Existing SG Pastors (Mike Seaver)

Looking at People

Encountering the Self-Righteous

What do you do when you encounter people who are self-righteous and arrogant?  Roll your eyes?  Make an excuse to walk away from them?  Give them some self-righteousness of your own?  

When Jesus encountered the rich young ruler in Mark 10, he had that opportunity. The man wanted to be sure that he had eternal life, which was good.  He also believed that he had kept the law and deserved a place in heaven; in short, he was self-righteous and arrogant.  

So how did Jesus respond to the young man’s blatant boasting and self-assurance?  Verse 21 says, “And Jesus, looking at him, loved him…”  Without getting into what Jesus said in order to expose the man’s idolatry and call him to repentance, let’s consider what Jesus did.  

Looking and Loving

He looked at him.  It’s interesting that the Bible includes this detail.  The King James Version says “He beheld him,” which means to look at someone in order to learn about him.  I think this look shows that Jesus cared.  He gave the young man his attention.  He didn’t become angry or impatient but showed concern for him.  

This look was Jesus loving this proud man (thank God he loves proud men!).  We see Jesus loving the proud throughout Scripture.  He gives people his full, undivided attention whether it’s a tax collector in a tree, an immoral woman at a well, or a grieving widow in a crowd of mourners.  This is what Jesus did.  He looked at people and saw men and women made in the image of God, even if they were arrogant.  He looked at people and loved them.

A Lesson for Us

I wonder if this is a lesson for us.  We can be so busy looking at our phones that we don’t look at people or give them our attention – we don’t interact with others.  Last summer I went to a baseball game and I was amazed at how many people were looking at their phones instead of looking at the game!  They could have stayed home, cooked a Ballpark frank, and saved some money.  It is staggering how impersonal our world is becoming.  We don’t have to interact with people anymore.  We can shop online, bank online, socialize online, and do whatever we want online.  I wonder if part of the drive behind the social media obsession is the world saying, “Somebody look at me!”  

God is calling us to be like Jesus and look at people—to reach out and connect.  As Christians, we have the most amazing news in the world and it is news that we simply can’t keep to ourselves.  We are called to love this lost world with the good news of the gospel. 

That means that we reach out in friendship to people.  It means we put the phone down and talk to the waitress. It means we care about what our neighbor or co-worker is going through and let them know we are praying for them.  It means we greet people in public.  It means we take a risk and invite someone to grab coffee or come to church.

Imagine someone accepting your invitation and grabbing coffee with you and then coming to church.  Imagine them hearing the gospel for the first time and understanding that grace is for people who are messed up, not people who have their act together.  Imagine them being transformed by the power of the gospel in the same way you were.  Imagine them sitting next to you on Sundays worshipping God with joy in their hearts.  Let’s look at the people that God has placed in our lives and love them.  And let’s love them enough to reach out and invite them into our lives and into the community that God has placed us in.

Jim Donahue is the Pastor of Evangelism at Covenant Fellowship Church, Glenn Mills, PA.

Day of Prayer for Our Nations, Communities and Churches

VIDEO TRANSCRIPT

Eric Turbedsky:

Hey, welcome to the Mark Prater podcast. My name is Eric Turbedsky. I work for Ben Kreps, I’m his new administrative assistant here today. I'm broadcasting live from California with our favorite Executive Director, Mark double K Prater. This podcast exists to connect our global family of churches to our Executive Director so you can know a little bit more about him, what he does, and really get a picture into the backend of Sovereign Grace Churches and all the things that are going on. So it's good to see you, Mark.

Mark Prater:

Good to see you, Eric. When was the last time we did a podcast together?

Eric Turbedsky:

It was pre-COVID, pre-quarantine. Should we be wearing masks on this?

Mark Prater:

Exactly. So you've emerged out of quarantine.

Eric Turbedsky:

I've emerged out of my cocoon and I am, I am now. Well, California has reopened, so we're open for business. We're doing stuff now. And probably going to get shut down any week now. But if it feels good to be back at least for a week. Thanks for letting me guest host. What is Ben doing?

Mark Prater:

Ben is on vacation. A well-deserved vacation.

Eric Turbedsky:

Are you allowed to do that? You're allowed to do that during the quarantine?

Mark Prater:

Yeah, you’re allowed to.

Eric Turbedsky:

I didn't know that. I thought the pandemic was going to be a vacation.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, exactly. That’s what everybody thought.

Eric Turbedsky:

It was the opposite. Everybody thought that. Turns out it is quite the opposite.

Mark Prater:

It was. Yeah. Our guys are working so hard.

Eric Turbedsky:

They have. They have Hey, okay. Here's the topic for today. Guys, I think other people probably pick it up on this. I've been picking up on this and I've actually joined the Leadership Team. I think it's about this time I joined the Leadership Team that I got kicked off this podcast that all happened together. It's probably all linked together. I am starting to notice a trend here that one of the things that we hear regularly from the Leadership Team of Sovereign Grace Churches is calls to prayer calls to fasting. They always seem to be on Fridays, which is, you know, it's like Friday fun day and then I can't eat. I’ve got to fast for something. There's one that just came out on a day of prayer. Tell me about that. And then tell me why the Leadership Team is doing this?

Mark Prater:

Well, there's a day of prayer, Wednesday, not Friday. That would be good for you, Wednesday, July 1st. It's a prayer for our nations and communities and churches related to the civil unrest that we've been experiencing, not only here in the States, but throughout the world, that really was precipitated by the tragic murder of George Floyd. And we as a family of churches want to take some time and to pray for real important matters. We want to express our compassion really our, as you know, Eric as a Leadership Team, our hearts are broken for the effects of sin—one of those being racism that we see in our culture, our hearts go out to the ethnic minorities in our churches and here in the States, obviously our African American brothers and sisters, in particular, because of the experiences they've had in our nation.

And so we want to begin our prayer, day of prayer, by just praying that God would comfort, knowing that God draws near the brokenhearted. We've taken the approach of the day of prayer because that's something we can all do together as a family of churches. And what we've also realized, as other organizations have made statements about this issue, is that we think it's best that our pastors are speaking into these issues in their local churches, to their local congregations, and in the context of their local communities. We feel like that's a better approach, at least for our family of churches anyway.

Eric Turbedsky:

It might be, you might say, in some ways that might be a hallmark of Sovereign Grace Churches or a distinctive that I've experienced as I've listened to the Leadership Team engagement is a real faith and appreciation, a trust for the local churches to speak for their local churches into their community, rather than looking to the global family of churches as a denomination of speak, which is curious enough. I don't know what your thoughts are on that, Mark, but though most of Sovereign Grace Churches are in the U.S., we're around the world. And sometimes it feels a little bit intimidating, odd, maybe not very helpful for a group of American church leaders to speak to, we'll pick friends, our friends in the Philippines about what's going on in particularly in the United States.

Mark Prater:

Yeah, that's exactly right. And this is, you know, this current civil unrest, peaceful protest, may be a better term, really is impacting the world or there are protests throughout the world. So there's that shared experience. But it's going to be different in both different cultures and in different churches. So how it impacts Joselo Mercado's church that is a Hispanic church or Erik Rangel’s church in Yuma, Arizona, that's highly Hispanic is going to be different than Tim Shorey's church in Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania which is going to be different than Dave Taylor's church in Sydney that is at least half Asian. So it's trying to find a way that we can communicate our compassion and the fact that we're aware of this issue without trying to speak into those situations in unhelpful ways, which is why we feel like a day of prayer is really just a wonderful way to do that.

Eric Turbedsky:

Totally. On this topic then, thoughts on the Leadership Team of Sovereign Grace, which is just unique. If you don't realize that and you’re watching this podcast, I feel it as a member of the Leadership Team, I don't know about you Mark, as Executive Director, but there aren't many other, we'll say families of churches that have something like ours, that, you know, some sort of modified Presbyterian form of government. But, yet, we have this Leadership Team that's been charged with leading and caring for and protecting our union of churches. And so we have this body of leaders that maybe doesn't have peers in other denominations. What are they supposed to be saying? And what are they not supposed to be saying? Just in general, just thinking beyond what's going on in the States today?

Mark Prater:

Well, you're right. I don't think we have somebody else that we could look to, like another denomination that would have the same structure that we do within our polity. And we're wrestling with that same question. What should we be saying and what shouldn’t we be saying in making statements, obviously we need the input of the Council of Elders and sort of bringing clarity on that.

But, you're exactly right. I think we, we feel like should we be speaking into issues like the one we're referencing here on racism for our entire family of churches that are located, that's a global family of churches throughout the world, and we've been reluctant to do that. Not because we don't care about the issue and we think it's important, but because what is clear in our structure is that our local pastors certainly have clarity and authority to do that.

And can I just say that I'm just rejoicing with what I see in Sovereign Grace as our pastors compassionately and clearly, and I believe wisely are speaking into this issue in a way that serves their local congregation and impacts their community. Our guys are just doing a great job.

Eric Turbedsky:

Yeah. I would say the same. You know, throughout the pandemic, when I got nothing to do, and I'm just surfing the internet and I'm looking around at what my friends are doing and know where they're hiding out from the Coronavirus. But I've just been so pleased to listen to guys speak on Sundays as their services are broadcast, or it's a blog post, or it's a, some something published on social media, the things they're saying, the way they're caring and leading both their church and speaking into their community has been encouraging. It has been a source of joy.

And I have been asked a few times at least, you know, what is Sovereign Grace thinking about these things. I'm like, well, check out the 70 different, near 80 different churches. And what they're saying, just in the US alone there's good work being done in local churches, which is what Sovereign Grace Churches is all about. It’s about the local church.

Mark Prater:

And I think if people did just go through that exercise of checking out what 70 or 80 churches are saying, I think they'd find consistency because they're led by gospel men. And the issues that we're facing all come back to that saving work of Jesus Christ that we all want to obviously preach, but also want to lead with as well.

Eric Turbedsky:

Yeah. Amen. Amen. Thanks. Thanks Mark, for being, I would say, our wartime president and at least for 2020, just leading us through these things, leading the Leadership Team, thinking about what we should be saying and not saying, and how those things conflict or encourage and build up the very DNA of Sovereign Grace Churches. I’m just so grateful for you, grateful for all the men that are leading all around our country, and the world. We should call this one quits but thank you. And I'm looking forward to that day of prayer. Thanks for moving it to Wednesday so I can enjoy my Friday.

Mark Prater:

Just for you.

 Eric Turbedsky:

Just for me. Hey, thanks for watching the podcast. And until we meet again, or Ben replaces me again, God bless.

Mark Prater is the Executive Director of Sovereign Grace Churches and has served as an elder at Covenant Fellowship Church since 2002.